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Procesně správné špatné rozhodnutí: helmy už zase nejsou povinné

Matyáš, náš nejvyšší bafuňář, při své inauguraci zmínil, že chce změnit pravidlo povinné helmy (či lakrosových brýlí). Netrvalo mu to ani moc dlouho a udělal to. Nový soutěžní řád nově umožňuje, aby lidé starší 18 let hráli bez helmy či jiné schválené ochrany očí. Spolu s ním to odmávli další tři lidé z vedení. A procesně správně udělali rozhodnutí špatné.

Matyáš je volnomyšlenkář, který zastává názor, že dospělý člověk je dostatečně způsobilý, aby o své ochraně rozhodoval sám. Jasně.

Vystřelené oko je průser jak svině.

To můžeme jet dokolečka takhle furt.

Debata o zavedení povinné ochrany očí se vedla docela dlouho. Padaly argumenty pro a proti (viz diskuze pod články tady a tady).

Ultimátně pravdivý argument je ovšem jeden (byť zdaleka nejsou všechny).

Na kongresu v roce 2009 se přesvědčivou většinou 23 hlasů proti 7 protivným a 2 zdrženým odhlasovala změna herního řádu. To je vcelku silný mandát.

Matyáš svůj názor prosadil procesně zcela správně. Jenže tohle je citlivá věc, kterou měl rozhodnout kongres.

Nestane se totiž nic jiného, než že Liga starých bab rozjede dehonestující kampaň proti prezidentoi a bude tlačit na to, aby se věc při nejbližší příležitosti vrátila do stavu, jak ji schválil kongres 2009.

Bude to pak jak u blbejch na dvorečku.

Liga starých bab
16. 3. 2016


Komentáře k pravidlu:


Souhlasím. Také myslím, že je to krok z5. Matyášovi se musí přiznat k dobru to, že to na rovinu říkal už při své kandidatuře. Jediná šance jak s tím něco dělat je na příštím Kongresu schválit něco podobného: Usnesení Kongresu SK SALH PRAHA - úkol pro Výkonný výbor SALH: Výkonný výbor SALH na svém nejbližším zasedání vrátí část Herního řádu, týkajícího se používání přileb, do stavu platného v sezóně 2014/2015 a zveřejní ho tak, aby začal platit neprodleně. Pozor. Návrh se musí podat předem, aby se o něm na jednání Kongresu mohlo jednat.

Buratino
17. 3. 2016

Asi málokterá změna pravidla mi udělala takovou radost jako tahle. Ono je něco jiného argumentovat z pozice, kdy se vás tohle pravidlo nedotýká (všichni zde zatím argumentující hrajou bez helmy). Po devíti letech hraní kdy jsem prošvihl to, mít v tomhle svobodu jen o rok či dva, je to super...

Adam
18. 3. 2016

Ahoj, na začátek bych rad upozornil, ze jsem s helmou vždy hral, hraji, a budu hrat i nadále. To, ze nosim opticke bryle na to ma pouze castecny vliv, hlavnim důvodem je to, ze v kazdem zapase dostanu minimalne jednou do hlav. At loktem, ramenem nebo lakroskou, sem tam i mickem. Zastáncem helem proste jsem a budu, a pro lakros si myslim, ze to dulezita ochrana je. Nicmene nehodlam podporovat takoveto narizeni. To bychom zachvilku mohli také hrat s molitanovými micky aby nikdo nemel modriny... Nechci nikomu upirat, ze vystrelene oko není pruser/oser a sam znam několik pripadu kdy lide museli i pul roku docházet k ocari... a myslite, ze to pomohlo? ze dotycny hraje ted v helme? Ne, nehraje a hrat ani nebude. V te Maconove galerii vystrelenych oci, jsem zaznamenal dokonce 2x pana Butovice. Hraje s helmou? Ne nehraje. Ted se omlouvam Buratino, ale jestli se nepletu tak v helme také nehraješ. Proto je pro me trosku matouci když tvrdis , ze je to krok zpet. Lidi kteří dostali micem do hlavy a zacali od te doby nosit helmu je myslim opravdu velmi malo a nemá proto smysl nadále toto narizeni zkouset. Navíc je preci jen lakros sportem amaterskym a pomalu ale jiste vymira, tymy odchazeji a házet mladym hracum klacky pod nohy je holy nerozuml. Samotni mladosi kteří zacnou před 18ymi narozeninami stále hrat v helme budou a ja doufam a verim, ze většina u te helmy zustane. Abych to shrnul: Kdo chce ten ji bude nosit(a ja si myslim, ze je to dobre) a kdo nechce ten ji nosit nebude. Je to pro jeho zdravi...

Matyas
18. 3. 2016

Je tady ovsem taky jedna otazka, kterou kdysi na baxparte vyslovila Mlha. Jak se ti Matyasi bude zit s tim, kdyz nekomu to oko vystrelis ty? Nebo budes upravovat svou hru tak, aby se to nestalo? Nechci zacinat flame, protoze je to porad dokola. Jen mi prijde zajimavy, ze v nekterych vecech si priklad z hokeje bereme (viz kniha prikladu a to je jiste fajn a patri za to velke diky) a nekde zase ne (helmy). Jen pro info, ja v helme hraju. Myslim ze stejnych duvodu, jako Matyas.

Homas
18. 3. 2016

Jsem pro, aby se každej starší 18 rozhodnul sám, zda bude hrát v ochraně hlavy nebo ne...pokud ale někdo chce, aby byla ochrana hlavy povinná, a sám v ní nehraje, protože se registroval do data, kdy povinná nebyla, nechápu proč to chce :-D když už někteří jedinci chtějí, ať je ochrana povinná, tak pro všechny, nevim o žádných jiných sportech, kde by se dělaly výjimky kvůli tomu, že se danej hráč registroval do určitýho data a potom se ho to netýkalo. Příklad do roku 2004 nebyla v hokeji povinná helma, tak hráči registrovaný do 2004 v ní hrát nemusí a nehrajou, ale po mladších registrovaných po 2004 chtěj, aby ji nosili, asi logika...

noflame
19. 3. 2016

Asi rozumím, že otázka ochrany očí má dvě roviny. Racionální (zranění, výčitky) a emocionální (nařízení, diktát, nesvoboda, šikana mládí). Takže to nebude mít dobrý řešení, to nejde argumentovat.... Škoda PS. Sám po nějakým zásahu do xichtu (http://baxparta.cz/fotoalbum.php?album=147) jsem začal hrát s brýlema (myslím, že jako jeden z prvních). Tak jen chci napsat, že se nemusíme bavit jen o helmě, když jsou ve hře brejle jako menší zlo (či harm reduction).

Aleš (BAX)
19. 3. 2016

Taky mi přijde divný, že řada horlivců kteří jasně bojovali pro helmy a šalamounskypokryteckou výjimkou jej prosadili, v nich leckdy nehrají..

Dan
20. 3. 2016

Tak ja tedy nevim, skoly nemam, ale pokud bych mel porovnavat, co je vice salamounsky pokrytecke, tedy jestli demokraticke hlasovani vsech o predem podanem navrhu na Kongresu nebo uprava pravidel narychlo zanesenou zmenou herniho radu, prohlasovanou par lidma ve vedeni, tak myslim, ze ja svyho favorita pro tohle Danovo oznaceni celkem jednoznacne mam.

Homas
20. 3. 2016

Reaguji na připomínky Dana a noflame, jelikož jsem byl u toho jako prezident. To, že je lakros nebezpečný pro oči a vůbec celý obličej, protože se lakrosky i míček neustále pohybují ve výši hlavy je nesporné. Řešili jsme tenkrát jak to udělat, aby se masivněji rozšířila ochrana hlavy a očí. I proto, že se dostávala do nepříjemných střetů hra dobrovolně opřílbeného hráče (který tak trochu ztrácí pocit sebezáchovy) oproti hráči nechráněnému. Jak to ale udělat, když lakros hraje spousta starých mazáků, kteří, když se jim to nařídí, tak prostě s lakrosem skončí. A to v té době to byl prostě fakt a byla to možná polovina celého lakrosového ansámblu. Nehledě na to, že by to vůbec nemělo šanci na Kongresu projít. Jediný možný způsob jak to udělat byla schválit povinnost nosit přílbu s krytem od určitého data narození. Chtěli jsme takto POSTUPNĚ přejít k tomu, aby lakros hráli VŠICHNI s ochranou hlavy a obličeje. Až o několik roků později se to zmírnilo na možnost chránit se povinně pouze "brýlemi". Zároveň se také schválila dotace na nákup příleb pro nové týmy. Stále si myslím, že to bylo správné a v tu dobu jediné možné řešení. Pro úplnost dodávám, že v přílbě nehraji a hrát už asi nebudu.

Buratino
20. 3. 2016

Děkuji Buratino, tvoje vysvětlení mi přišlo tréfné. Toto nazývám šalamounskypokryteckým :) A pro Homase: Ve vedení čehokoliv jsem nebyl minimálně dekádu. Vaše aktivita vedla ke změně dlouholetéhp trendu nepovinného nošení helem, proč jste si tedy nepohlídali, aby změna nebyla možná takto jednoduše, tedy přes prezidenta a několikeré funkcionáře? Dále pak se mi líbí návrh Buratina, ať se na podzim udělá, ale "VŠELIDOVÉ" hlasování, jak dál, povinnost či ne.. Rád bych viděl výsledky. A teď nakonec trošku nechám zbrunátnět nejen Homase :) Kolik znáte lakrosáků, kteří během vašeho pobytu na lakrosových kolbištích přišel o oko, nebo má díky zranění dlouhodobé vážné následky? Ptám se proto, aby jsme došli cíle nakolik je daná obava reálná. Podívejme se třeba na nerovný povrch nejen na Vypichu. Kolik hráčů si díky němu natrvalo poškodila zdravá kolena? Řeší se to? Je to zanedbatelný problém? děkuji předem za komentáře

Dan
20. 3. 2016

Me asi nezbrunatnis. Co je salamounsky pokrytecke, v tom mam totiz docela jasno a tezko me presvedcis, ze vetsi mandat ma par bafunari odhlasovana zmena herniho radu nez navrh prohlasovany kongresem. Podle meho pouzili bafunari ustanoveni naprosto v rozporu s jeho duchem ci zamyslenym pouzitim, ale OK, je to de jure v poradku, tak co. Navic, kdyz jsem kdysi stejne ustanoveni navrhoval pouzit v jine situaci v kauze jednotnych dresu (viz. tady) Ja jen, aby se to, pratele, trochu nezvrtlo a nebyli jsme nuceni hrat lakros s pukem, kdyz se par mocnych rozhodne menit hernim radem pravidla. A jeste pro Dana, mel jsi mnoho let casu zpracovat navrh pro kongres, abys to hlasovani znovu otevrel. Proc jsi to neudelal?

Homas
21. 3. 2016

Reakce na Dana: Každý tomu asi říkáme jinak. Pro me je to kompromis, ty to vnímáš jako salamounskopokrytecke. Co se tyka VSELIDOVEHO hlasovani, tak podle me je to kravina. Jednak nevim jak by se to melo delat a z principu jsem obecne odpurcem vsech referend. Jejich vypovidaci hodnota je pro me diskutabilni. Vysledek je totiz ovlivnen mnoha faktory jakou jsou treba polozena otazka, pocet zucastnenych, doba konani a dalsi. Jinak hriste na Vypichu vnimam take jako velky problem. Je to samozrejme otazka penez. Jiz dva tymy maji sve domaci hriste profesionální. Myslim, ze je to cesta. Tezko můžeme chtit po SALHu platit pro vsechny pronájem fotbalovych hrist.

Buratino
21. 3. 2016

Jeste maly dovetek. Nechci, aby to vyznelo, ze vedeni dela nejake totalitarske zasahy a samozrejme nepredpokladam, ze v tehle linii bude pokracovat. "Salamounsky pokrytecke" bych to sam nenazval. Jen jste proste vyuzili maximum mozneho. Podle meho ovsem zbytecne a cely ten postup mi prijde neadekvatne silovy. Nechapu, proc jste nesli cestou kongresu, kdyz si Matyas mysli, ze mandat pro zruseni toho pravidla mate dostatecne silny. Jinak v podstate stoprocentni souhlas s tim, co tady psal Buratino prede mnou.

Homas
21. 3. 2016

Ze vas to porad bavi .. :-)

K.
22. 3. 2016

Vaše debata je absolutně o ničem. Je nepochopitelný, že hráči hrající bez helmy požadují povinné helmy pro ostatní. Mají jí mít všichni nebo jí nemusí mít nikdo, to je pravidlo a výjimky by se připouštět neměli. Jelikož je zde ale spousta tvrdohlavců, nebylo jiné řešení než povinné helmy zrušit. Zamyslete se nad sebou než něco plácnete :))))

M.
26. 3. 2016

Koukam, ze jsem se s nazorem ohledne totalitarskych zasahu mozna unahlil. Evidentne to neni neco, co be nebylo jinym po chuti. Docela smutny.

Homas
29. 3. 2016

Prosím, nepoužívejte argument, že laxbrýle/helmy prosazují lidé, kteří sami hrají bez brýlí. Je to irelevantní a není to pravda. Stejně tak by se dalo znevažovat poslední rozhodnutí, že povinnost helmy zrušil člověk hrající s helmou. Byť teda tohle pravda je. Podstatná otázka je, jestli hráči od určitého roku aktivního hraní mají mít ochranu (laxbrýle/helma) povinnou, nebo ne. Já jsem zastáncem toho, že mají.

*-*
29. 3. 2016

Maconi, už musím též reagovat do vašeho lax bulváru:) Není pravda, co píšeš. Povinnost nošení helem nezrušil člověk hrající s helmou, ale lidé ve VV a ČDK. Což umožňuje řád soutěže, kterou všichni dobrovolně a rádi hrajeme. Zde není co řešit. Za mě určitě nesouhlas, brát dvojí metr. Buď mají mít helmu povinně všichni anebo ji pro všechny nad 18 let zrušit a nechat dobrovolně. Diskriminovat nově začínající hráče mi nepřijde fér, ale to je subjektivní. Radši bych se zaměřil na konstruktivní řešení kvality hřiště, ze kterého je mnohem víc úrazů, jak už zde Buratino nadhodil.

Martin (TRO)
30. 3. 2016

Popořadě, jo? To, že došlo ke změně, inicioval Matyáš, který hraje v helmě. Jistě, je to zkratka, potřeboval k tomu další hlasy bafuňářů, ale kdyby to nerozhýbal on, tak se nic neměnilo. Zkratka, ale trefná. Je zde malinko co řešit, totiž že někdejší změna měla velkou podporu kongresu. Teď se takováhle navýsost citlivá věc změnila v malém kroužku. Máš pravdu, je to podle pravidel, proto jsem psal, že malinko. I když mě to vlastně sere hodně, protože se tím napáchalo dost škody, viz dál. Dvojí metr: Když se to tenkrát schvalovalo, záměrně se vytvořilo pravidlo, že to platí až od určené doby pro nové hráče. Protože bylo v lakrose příliš mnoho Ledvinků, Kurovců, Buratinů a jiných starých pák, které by na hlavu helmu/laxbrýle nedali. Jim se ponechala možnost hrát bez ochrany. Ale všichni noví hráči měli mít ochranu povinnou, aby se s ní naučili hrát. Stačila výměna jedné dvou generací a bylo by úplně přirozené hrát s ochranou očí. Neoznačuj to prosím za diskriminaci, protože to je přechodné období nebo něco takového, ne diskriminace. Kvalita hřiště: to je věc, kterou rád podpořím, ale osobně mě netrápí a nebudu se v tom angažovat. Já jsem byl pro konstruktivní řešení, které se svého času podařilo prosadit a které teď vedení poslalo do hajzlu. Protože to vzhledem k emoční rovině debaty bylo konstruktivní: nechávalo prostor na dožití v té době aktivním hráčům a myslelo na budoucnost budoucích hráčů. Konstruktivně to řešilo reálný problém. A mělo to širokou podporu kongresu. A je to v hajzlu. Ale doufám, že dočasně a že další kongres to vrátí zpět.

*-*
30. 3. 2016

Když se něco kongresem schvalovalo, je to už zavedený a všichni s tím počítají, mělo by se to se souhlasem kongresu taky rušit. Připadá mi to jak v našem slavném parlamentu, tam když se jim něco nehodí, tak si prostě odhlasujou změnu pravidel a ono jim to projde. Hraju lakros už přes třicet let, tehdy jsem, myslím, hlasovala proti, ale časem jsem došla k tomu, že to bylo správné rozhodnutí, je to bezpečnější a i já stará páka jsem začala helmu na zápasy nosit.

Jarmila
7. 4. 2016

Kdyby všichni matadoři a starý psi byli trošku charakteři jako Jarmila, nebylo by pokrytců, vášnivých debat a všichni bychom nosili ochranu očí a hlavy. Zkušený staří hráči mají jít příkladem. Díky J. tak jak to je teď udělal matyáš a tým jeho poradců správně. a ti co prskají nemaj prskat ale chytit se za nos, koupit si helmu jako rozumný protest

V
9. 4. 2016

A co se takhle kluci podepsat? Bojíte se? Čeho?

Dan
10. 4. 2016

Kde jsou mí rudí hoši,
kde jsou má rudá děvčata,
celé to snažení v koši?
Hladovka bude má odplata!

Všichni rudí v helmách hráli,
teď však už nejsme tu,
vždy o vítězství jsme bojovali,
jestli se nepletu.

starej Kadeřábek
10. 4. 2016

Me se ale taky libi pristup jarmily. Naucila me hrat lakros. Jako opravdovy mentor vi, ze jestli chce zmenu, ma jit prikladem. Kdyz muj ucitel se jdes tabor do role ze on nemusi a ja musim, dopadne to tak jak to dopada. Nevychovne a pokrytecke. Respektuju ty, kteri jsou proti a helmu nenosi. Respektuju ty kteri jsou pro a helmu nosi. Respektuju ty kteri helmu nosi z vlasy nich duvodu a nikomu nic necpou. Typci jako buratino a podobny.....

V jako Vasek nebo vaclav
11. 4. 2016

Poslední případ rány do oka je ze včerejška - Verča se projela záchrankou.

Jarmila
6. 5. 2016

A proc nemela helmu? Asi nechtela ..

K.
10. 5. 2016

Zas ty zkratky jmen.. Vážení, pokud nejste letitými diskutéry a píšete jen iniciály, nebo tradiční jména z kalendáře, tak to neni moc upřímný. Přidejte aspoň tým za kterej hrajete. Jinak mě a asi i ostatním vaše příspěvky přijdou nezodpovědné. Bulvarizace rozhodně nepřispěje ke konstruktivnímu řešení čehokoliv.

Dan
10. 5. 2016

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